Friends inside the administration provided me with the
master plan and pictures for the college avenue renovation that is being led by
Devco. Looks great- new academic building, honors college, housing and a big
park at Hamilton and College ave. Hope it really happens this time.
This post was edited on 6/20 1:14 PM by RU G
 |
In that map of College ave did anything significantly change from what is currently there? It pretty much looks the same to me just with a few buildings added near seminary and a parking garage constructed (good idea)... BTW why are the grease truck lot and the parking garage surrounded by red dotted lines? With a new parking garage, will they be closing down some of the other parking spaces and converting them to open space/"greening" them?
.
BTW what do you mean "consolidate" the seminary site? Are we taking away half their land to build the honors college (who is forking over the dough to buy out part of this place)? What is so special about this building? Will anything out of the ordinary be in this building or will it just be a bunch of lecture halls and offices (maybe with smart boards) dedicated to educating pretentious, snobby honors students (hey I can take a shot at them, I was one of them)? OR is there something more planned for this area other then the obvious?
Any water features planned?
This post was edited on 6/20 1:53 PM by Blitz8RUCrazy
|
Here are the changes
A new building on the Grease Trucks lot
A new seminary building where the Hillel is now.
Three new Rutgers building on the current seminary property, one of which will replace that hideous seminary building at the west end of Vorhees Mall, the others replacing smaller scale structures.
A new parking deck, which is presumably what will allow them to build over the grease trucks lot.
This post was edited on 6/20 2:02 PM by derleider
|
You've posted your questions like you're in a shootout.
-the red dotted lines appear to signify new construction.
That's all I've got:-)
6/20 1:58 PM | IP: Logged |
Red dots mean the area is included in the project...doesnt anyone have an opinion about the JumboTron
6/20 2:10 PM | IP: Logged |
Red dots mean the area is included in the project...doesnt anyone have an opinion about the JumboTron
Hope its not included.
Whats with the Mine Street properties?
6/20 2:18 PM | IP: Logged |
The building design would go well with what they are constructing on Livingston - I'm not so sure how it will look on College Ave.
6/20 2:24 PM | IP: Logged |
I actually think the Jumbotron is a cool idea. If they put the trucks off to the side, and have a green area there, it could draw some people in for away games or movies. It's unique, preserves something different about that lot.
The bigger questions is when is this happening?
|
If they want everything to look more modern, from Seminary Place down, I'm fine with that, HOWEVER...the problem is Scott Hall. They need to - somehow, someway - give that dump a makeover so that IT fits in better with the buildings that surrounds it. There would then be an "old campus" type feel smack in the middle of a more modern upper campus and a completely modernized downtown.
6/20 2:44 PM | IP: Logged |
Would the contemplated academic building on Lot 8 be the Center for New Humanities that was brought up a few years back?
|
I have not heard a thing about any of this, although I have been screaming that College Ave needs a rebirth since the original plan blew up. Who is paying for this? How did Devco get involved? That is probably a good thing since they get things done. When? Mostly what we ever hear about College Ave is pipe dreams so I will not hold my breath.
6/20 2:46 PM | IP: Logged |
Originally posted by NotInRHouse:
I actually think the Jumbotron is a cool idea. If they put the trucks off to the side, and have a green area there, it could draw some people in for away games or movies. It's unique, preserves something different about that lot.
The bigger questions is when is this happening?
Thats clearly the plan from the picture.
I would prefer some kind of removable screen with a projector though than a permanent jumbotron.
|
It looks like the architects on this project have done work at Duke, Harvard, Boston U, OSU, and other academic institutions.
Here's a link for a sense of what they've done. I hope we don't go the Emerson Center route.
This post was edited on 6/20 3:08 PM by RuLaw2004
Link: Other Academic Work
6/20 3:05 PM | IP: Logged |
I see what I believe to be a mistake on the map. On the left side, about 2/3rds of the way up, what is labeled as "Stone Street" is actually Bartlett Street. The unlabeled street one block below Bartlett should be Stone. (Stone turns into Bishop Place at College Ave.)
6/20 3:33 PM | IP: Logged |
"Devco recognizes the importance the grease trucks play in the history and culture of Rutgers. As part of creating an exciting urban space on Lot 8, Devco fully intends to work with the grease truck vendors to incorporate them in the new project," Devco said in a statement.
The rest of the complex project involves construction over 10 acres in the center of campus, including 5 acres currently owned by the New Brunswick Theological Seminary. The new buildings will include an academic building, 500-bed dorm for honors students, 800-bed apartment complex, 15,000-square-feet of retail space, green space and a parking deck. The seminary will also get a new academic building and housing.
The project is contingent on Rutgers getting $52 million in Urban Transit Hub Tax Credits under a state program. That funding must be approved by the state Economic Development Authority.
"If that's not successful, then there is no project," Calcado said.
6/20 6:33 PM | IP: Logged |
This project is definitely a good replacement for the greening. Anyone know the success rate on the tax credits?
6/20 6:37 PM | IP: Logged |
I don't know that I would call it a replacement for the greening. Ultimately most of CA needs to be redone
The seminary lot, the Grease trucks lot, the Rutgers Club area, Records hall, the west side of CA from Bartlett to the Grease Trucks, and finally the roadway itself are all areas that need major redos. This should not replace the ultimate goal of making CA itself a better roadway (or more).
As I said on another thread - the next step should be to exchange property with the three or four frats on college ave itself for university property on union and mine streets. (mostly current parking lots) and build something nicer than old houses - a row of nice academic buildings.
|
I'll believe it when I see ground broken.
6/21 8:49 AM | IP: Logged |
I don't mind the few frats on coll ave. they break up the monotony and and character to the campus. The countless other small houses/ offices scattered about need to go
6/21 9:23 AM | IP: Logged |
Originally posted by derleider:
I don't know that I would call it a replacement for the greening. Ultimately most of CA needs to be redone
The seminary lot, the Grease trucks lot, the Rutgers Club area, Records hall, the west side of CA from Bartlett to the Grease Trucks, and finally the roadway itself are all areas that need major redos. This should not replace the ultimate goal of making CA itself a better roadway (or more).
As I said on another thread - the next step should be to exchange property with the three or four frats on college ave itself for university property on union and mine streets. (mostly current parking lots) and build something nicer than old houses - a row of nice academic buildings.
In McC's letter posted on the football board, he says that the seminary replacement will include a dining hall. So I wonder if Records Hall/Brower Area is on the chopping block. Certainly it would seem odd for CAC to have two dining halls when Cooper was closed due to proximity to Neilson. Perhaps an inadvertent show of cards on his part.
I'm OK with the frat and other houses (like Bob says they break up the street) so long as they are properly maintained.
The roadway is going to be fixed, at least in part. The state gave $220,000 to NB for "College Avenue improvements".
I don't think anyone has thought about Rutgers Club in decades though.
|
And in regards to this whole project... I love it. The extended vorhees mall is truly a boon for college ave! You'll now have green space and a natural walkway that spans a large chunk of the campus. It'll be interesting as to how they make it work going up the hill at seminary, but that shouldn't be too big of an issue. I used to hate the walk from class at Murray to the river dorms. You'd snake through seminary and up around the narrow sidewalks by George.
I'm also happy that the building at llot 8 is more than a big box mid rise. I like how it's set back and allows for a nice courtyard in front of it.
Now the million dollar question is whether or not they can get the urban transit tax monies. The gateway was successful in doing so, and Im pretty certain that the planned boraie apt bldg on somerset did as well.
6/21 10:06 AM | IP: Logged |
Bob - I think the problem is that the frats are scattered in with those buildings. If you want to ditch them and build something worthwhile you need to move the frats. I think ti would be even weired to have nice university buildings with frats squeezed in between.
From the Grease Trucks up to the gym its (where I say house I actually mean RU office thats actually na old house)
House
Empty Lot
Frat
House
House
House
Frat
Parking Lot
Parking Lot
Frat
House
House
Church
House
Frat
House
You could easily move those four frats to Union on the parking lot that is there now, or Mine.
Plus I think there is a benefit in consolidating the frats in one place.
|
6/21 10:35 AM | IP: Logged |
The frat houses on College Ave are not the problem. They are relatively OK.
Those houses behind the Grease Truck lot are a disgrace except for maybe two, they should all be torn down. What an eye sore.
|
Agree with Scarlet Craig here.
The fraternity houses on College Avenue are fine structurally, they just need to be cleaned up, new roofing/paint/landscaping. However, that's hard with undergrads occupying them as each year they are brutally worn down.
They do need to tear down a couple of the Greek houses on Union street, as they're absolute eyesores. However, I'd like them to maintain Greek row, if the administration would embrace Greek life at Rutgers and promote pride in the houses, it can create a nice architectural element to the university campus.
I've been to a number of campuses where Greek houses are well done and contribute a lot to the architectural aesthetic of the university.
6/21 11:42 AM | IP: Logged |
Its not that the frat houses are a problem - although the one they just recently (well within the last decade) built is pretty unimpressive. Its that half of the main drag on our main campus is houses (acting as offices), and renovating it would be much easier if you owned the whole stretch (at least from the church to the new Grease Trucks building).
Plus moving them over to Union would in essence create a frat row.
|
A bunch of former frat houses on Union have been replaced with apartments. I think the concept of "frat row" is kind of dead for the current students.
Rutgers isn't much different from most colleges in the country- especially in the Northeast- in crushing fraternity life. I don't have an issue with private owners turning the houses in apartment complexes, because we need more. But that shouldn't be because frat life feels squeezed.
Overall RU should move, or encourage private developers to move, in acquiring property on and near College Ave that is in visible disrepair to be redeveloped.
I too am curious about the tax credit. Obviously, students living in the proposed apartments are not commuters in the traditional sense. They may use the station for internships or side jobs but not every day. If it's about getting people to and from work and school though, we should get the credits. The difference with Gateway and the Boraie project is that theoretically the buyers and renters will be using the train station to get to work. In practice I think most of the units will be bought and rented by people with some affiliation with RU and/or RWJ. The Boraie project, being apartments, will likely have a student contingency.
|
NIRH - thats fine. I mostly proposed union because its land that RU owns that is less valuable to RU than land on CA that is currently occupied by fraternity houses.
6/21 2:21 PM | IP: Logged |
This desperately needs to get done. It is our front door to visitors from around the world.
6/21 2:32 PM | IP: Logged |
I'm not sure the new dining facility is supposed to replace Brower. It mentioned a dining facility where students and faculty can eat together, but faculty always eat in a separate area, away from students. Also, looking at only the yellow parts on the map and comparing it to the size of Brower, I don't think either could be big enough. No, instead I believe this dining portion to be just for the honors students and not intended as a full time replacement of Brower.
As far as the apartments on lot 8 go, this IS big. This is supposed to hold 800 beds. For point of reference, University Center holds 656, Rockoff holds 660, Silvers hold 636, the new Livingston apartments hold 1500, and the Newells hold 992. I expect it to be at least as tall as University Center. Also, I would assume the new honors dorm to be suite style and the B.E.S.T. dorm on Busch is also suite style and holds exactly the same amount, 500 beds. I suspect the proposed honors dorm to look a lot like that.
What's that business going down on Mine Street?
This post was edited on 6/21 2:52 PM by roofusgooner
This post was edited on 6/21 3:00 PM by roofusgooner
|
Can anyone explain the color-coding on these drawings?
The red dashed lines seem to indicate Rutgers Campus area and the Seminary campus area, but within the Rutgers campus area are new buldings in yellow and in gray what's that indicate?
The new building at lot 8 is also yellow, as is the unspecified building on Mine St.
|
I thought yellow was student life, purple was academic, and the blue was the new seminary building.
This post was edited on 6/21 3:16 PM by roofusgooner
|
I don't think there will be an "Honors Dining Hall". That's not very RU-like. It may be smaller, but I think it still could replace Brower. Brower has A LOT of wasted space with its current set-up.
6/21 3:38 PM | IP: Logged |
NT
Link: another link
6/21 4:06 PM | IP: Logged |
NO way are they replacing Brower with this.
Losing RC was a big hit for RUs elite factor, this Honors College is a good way to get that back.
The color coding is as such - the red lines indicate the areas of the project. Yellow is housing, purple is academic, grey is existing (the parking deck will replace an existing lot with the same footprint).
|
I'm just hoping these press statements mean, we will soon be going from initiatives to reality. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum here. It's nice to read about concrete objectives. I just hope this is not more talk, but more action will be taken regardless of what is going on with the merger talks. This area should be our crowning jewel to Rutgers. It has been neglected far too long.
6/21 8:07 PM | IP: Logged |
The frats are not going plain and simple. First of all the land and houses are owned by the local fraternities. If RU were to offer to buy the property what would we do, divide all the monies amongst living alumni - not going to happen. The next option would be to have them move. Again, the cost of rebuilding and moving is far greater than what RU would pay. When I was at RU our mortgage was$1,000 per year. We kept the house up to minimum standards as required. RU will never be able to get these fraternities to move unless they fork out a pile of money. There is absolutely no economic advantage for the fraternities to do so.
6/21 8:48 PM | IP: Logged |
Your first point seems nonsensical. What if someone donated money to the fraternity, what would you do? I assume put it in some kind of bank account for use to buy another property and build a house on it.
Lets put it this way - if Rutgers can strike a deal with the Seminary to tear down the Dixie cup surely it can make a deal with four organizations who's existence as anything more than owners of run down, overcrowded apartment buildings is basically in RUs control.
But yes, RU could even enough to replace the houses, or a portion of the replacement cost, in addition to the land swap.
It won't happen because I'm sure its at the bottom of RUs list of things to do on CA. But the idea that RU just couldn't move the frats seems a little overblown.
|
I would hate to see it happen, but RU could take the frats property via eminent domain. All they would have to do is make a case that the land could serve a better purpous for the public.
|
I don't think RU has eminent domain powers. And I too would hate to see it. It wouldn't go over well with alumni, thats for sure.
I mean obviously right now this is a moot point - RU has never suggested that it wants to renovate those two or three blocks, let alone have any serious plans for it. But I suspect that if RU is going to spend $150-$200 million renovating those blocks then they can also find a couple of million to build new houses for the frats on Union.
|
I am an alumni of a Union St. frat. I am also smart enough to realize it is time to do something more with that valuable property. College Ave is a ghetto compared to other flagship universities. Here is a great opportunity to build on the progress downtown and beautify our historic heart before it is too late. Let the frats go. They are physically a mess - ugly relics of a time long past. I guess I feel the same about the dumb trucks.
6/22 9:43 AM | IP: Logged |
NJ's eminent domain law is more stringent than the federal standard. You basically have to show the property in question is totally decrepit and serving pretty much no purpose at all. Even with the worst house I think it would be a hard standard.
Also, I don't see how RU having a dining hall limited to honors students. Eventually, don't you think people will start migrating over there because Brower is no good?
|
NIRH good point. Maybe you would have to live there or get let in by a friend to have access. I'll ask my friends in dining whats up though.
nyc - yes, I think thats a good point too. I guess the question is - how actually runs the fraternities business. Who would make the decision to sell or not - current members or alumni members.
|
I don't have a problem with the frats being there. The block needs to be cleaned up, and a few of the older/more dilapidated homes need to be given an altamatum... I wasn't in a frat, but I feel like Greek life can add value to any university. If that block is cleaned up, lighted more, maybe some ru or Greek flags on the lights, it could look the part.
Easton ave IMO is what needs to be gutted. They're making progress w the new retail/apt bldgs, but there's a long way to go
6/22 10:59 AM | IP: Logged |
Most fraternity houses are owned and operated by a Board of Trustees that is composed of alumni. The Trustees usually allow the undergrads, through their elected officers, to run the day-to-day operations, with oversight from the BOT.
|
Some comments on the plan:
Overall, this looks like an excellent plan. While it only covers part of CAC, it's a very good start.
Grease Truck lot - Good idea. I was opposed to having a parking deck there. I wanted a combination of building and public space, and it looks like that's what we're getting.
Seminary - This is huge. Consolidating the Seminary and replacing ugly buildings is a win-win. The residential honors college is also a great idea. I've been saying RU should have a residential college for a while. The new academic building will allow departments (I'm assuming Philosophy is one) to finally have some quality space.
Garage site - This is gonna be a tight squeeze, but it's probably the best location for a garage. I wanted it here, but wasn't sure it would fit. Nice to see they can do it.
Regarding the houses on CAC - Derleider is right that many of these need to go, and they have been going, gradually. I think most or all of the recent projects such as the Chabad expansion, counseling center, and the new apartment buildings on Sicard have replaced old houses.
Overall, this will do a lot for the south end of CAC. Future plans should replace Records Hall and Brower and continue the streetscape improvements that have been made near Brower and the student center.
|
Originally posted by NotInRHouse:
I don't think there will be an "Honors Dining Hall". That's not very RU-like. It may be smaller, but I think it still could replace Brower. Brower has A LOT of wasted space with its current set-up.
A residential college could very well have its own dining hall. That's probably what this is.
At Michigan, there is no central dining hall. The quads/halls have their own. And a residential college, anywhere, is certainly a candidate to have its own dining facility.
|
Originally posted by bob-loblaw:
I don't have a problem with the frats being there. The block needs to be cleaned up, and a few of the older/more dilapidated homes need to be given an altamatum... I wasn't in a frat, but I feel like Greek life can add value to any university. If that block is cleaned up, lighted more, maybe some ru or Greek flags on the lights, it could look the part.
Easton ave IMO is what needs to be gutted. They're making progress w the new retail/apt bldgs, but there's a long way to go
Agree. They have got to fill in the old Cafe 52 site. Chain-link fencing, weeds, and graffiti is not a good look. North of Hamilton is just a mess. Many of those old houses look like crap. The new stuff (especially the blue building) is pretty good, but we need more of it. Everything should be mixed use. The area between St. Peter's and Hamilton needs the most help. Hamilton to Somerset is OK (though not great), but would be substantially improved w/ something on that empty lot.
This post was edited on 6/22 11:53 AM by lawmatt78
|
Originally posted by Scarlet16E:
Most fraternity houses are owned and operated by a Board of Trustees that is composed of alumni. The Trustees usually allow the undergrads, through their elected officers, to run the day-to-day operations, with oversight from the BOT.
I believe that some of the fraternities don't even own their house and just lease them - this is part of the reason you see some of the houses change letters so frequently.
I think Rutgers could buy a lot of them out if they had the money. They would be stupid to kill Greek life anymore than they already do though. My feelings on greek life are mixed, but there is no doubt the kids that come out of fraternities/sororities have some of the most pride in their school.
|
I think some of us are talking past each other. I'm talking about the frats on College Avenue itself, specifically on the Grease Trucks side of the road. I'm not saying to get rid of them, I'm saying at some point RU needs to spruce up that whole stretch from the Student Center (or at least the Church) to the new Grease Trucks building.
I believe RU owns all of the houses that aren't churches or frats (at least RU uses them. I don't think any are non-university residential). But the frats are kind of spread out along that stretch.
If you look at the map - it looks like the Career Development Office (a house used by the university) and the empty lot next to it would be built over for the new apartments.
But then the next block is frat, house, house, house, frat, parking for frats, frat, house, house. If you wanted to make use of this block for the university, it would make sense to not only tear down the houses, but also the frat houses.
I agree that Greek life has a place at the university, I just think land on the main street of the university is more valuable for university purposes. So my idea is to trade - offer to build new houses for the four CA frats on Union Street, where RU currently owns alot of parking. Further, it would consolidate the houses more or less on Union and Mine (as far as I know).
|
Yahoo! Sports
